Episode 11: Promoted Pins Are So Underrated Don’t Sleep on Them

Episode Summary

Overlooking the popular visual platform could be depriving you of a weapon to wield against your competition. You've probably never thought of Pinterest as a medium for your success. Pinterest promoted pins expert Erin Harding shares her lead-grabbing techniques and describes specific tactics you can use to drive down your advertising costs.

Audio Transcript

Welcome to growth hack by Papi Digital tips and tricks to master the algorithms from industry insiders. Now here's your host, Julian Espinosa. Welcome back to growth hack where we break down marketing channels like Google, Facebook, Instagram, and show them how to make them work for you today. We're going to talk about a platform that doesn't get a lot of attention, but big things are happening.

Pinterest. I remember when Pinterest was for cooking recipes and home decorations. Well guys, Pinterest has come a long way to tell us the history of paid ads on Pinterest. We bring in Aaron Harding from simple pin media, the director of promoted pins. Welcome Erin. Hi Julian. Thanks for having me today. Yeah, this is so cool. I've this? You are my first zoom podcast recording. Oh, well I feel very special then. Thank you. I'm a little bit out of my element. Usually I'm in a studio, so hopefully we sound good and hopefully we look good. See, I just hit awesome.

So really quickly, why don't we tell the audience a little bit about your Pinterest background and talk a little bit about what BR what brought you here to the show? Sure. Well, my name is Erin herding and I'm the director of promoted pins management and simple media. Uh, we are a country's management agency dedicated to helping our clients find and convert their person on Pinterest.

Um, so. For the promoted pins department, we've actually been offering, um, promoted pins services and management, uh, for about three years now. And so it's, we've gone from strictly organic management, um, to also offering promoted pin management as well. The platform has developed and allowed people to start advertising on the platform.

So I would say simple pen has been around for about six years now. And then, uh, as a three years ago, we started introducing, uh, services to manage ads. Awesome. And, and it's really interesting because we don't hear a lot in the digital marketing world about Pinterest. Pinterest is kind of like that quiet underdog, and I've always really been interested in paying attention to it because I know it's an underdog, which mean to me, it's an opportunity, which.

On the podcast, it's a growth hack. So let's, before we get into paid pins, which I believe in. And why don't you tell us what, what they actually call it? I believe it's called promoters. Yes. Call it promoted pins. Yes, that's correct. So before we get started on promoted pins, let's just talk really quickly about user behaviors on.

Pinterest versus Facebook. So we all know how Facebook works. We all know we're on there to consume information about our friends or on there too, for entertainment purposes in between a meeting, you're trying to sit in your car before you want to go back inside to your wife and your kids. And you're sitting on Facebook, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling before you want to go and, and, and, and do the rest of your night. So talk to us a little bit about. How people use Pinterest and what's Pinterest used for nowadays. Well, you know, Pinterest is visual discovery, so it's basically a visual search engine users go to Pinterest to get inspired. It's sort of like a productivity tool for projects, recipes, planning, shopping. So when, when people open the Pinterest app, they already have something in mind, right?

So people use Pinterest to find solutions to their problems, which makes it a really great place for businesses to advertise. You're basically getting in their heads during the planning stages. So not when they're just mindlessly scrolling, like you said, but when they're actually planning on doing something, um, And then not to mention right now is just a really good time, because not as many people are advertising or even know they can advertise on Pinterest.

So if you haven't started now, now's the time. Um, it's a really great time to kind of get in. And, um, what we're seeing is that people are starting to. Um, so the history of Pinterest is sort of tutorials and things like that, but people are realizing they can actually, um, plan whatever it is that they're planning and not just have tutorials, but actually layer in buying and purchasing throughout that as well.

Interesting. So I think something that, that you've highlighted there that's really intriguing to me is that. So they're on there with a real purpose. They're not on there, like on Facebook where you're there just to get entertained and just kind of fill the void and fill the time. Right. You're there with the purpose, which to a degree, someone can argue that they are deeper in the sales funnel, right.

Or the marketing funnel. Right. Then you would be on Facebook because Facebook's a lot of discovery. You're doing discovery where on Pinterest, it sounds like you're more interested in something and you're going and saying, okay, well, I want to take a look at, you know, redecorating my house, or I want to take a look at how to build something or all these things.

Can you talk to us about a few use cases where people are doing, like, what kind of searching is happening on Pinterest? Yeah. So since it's a visual, um, discovery that the two main, uh, parts of that are visual, which is the Pinterest pin or the ad, um, and then discovery, which is sort of the key wording.

Right. Um, and so what you really want to do is you kind of want to get into the shoes of somebody who is planning and. Kind of think about, okay, what keywords are they using while they're searching for this particular thing? So, for example, I mean, in my personal life, I was using Pinterest years before I actually started managing.

Pinterest accounts. Um, and I remember in big, uh, changes that we made in our lives, whether that be, um, having children or building our deck or, you know, redecorating or planning for the new year, whatever it was, I would make a specific board on Pinterest, um, which is where people can save your either ads or your organic, um, Pinterest pins.

And so what they're doing is there's this idea. So let's say, you know, it starts from, uh, the beginning. We want to build a deck. Okay. So what are all of the. Parts that go along with that. So we want to look at different material. We want to look at, um, how that affects our lives. And we want to look at, you know, how do we know how to landscape around a deck?

I mean, there's so many different things, so you start to search. Okay. And so while you're searching. What you want to do when you're running ads is you really want to come in when they're searching for those solutions. And so you, you really want to be very specific with your keywords when it comes, um, to where do you want to drop into the user's mind?

Right. So, um, I would say that. No matter what it is. I mean, it could be as small as I need to cook dinner for six people tonight, I have to get on Pinterest too, you know, home designing. So there there's a big variety and, um, there's, you know, there's a lot of users on Pinterest, so there's a lot of people to, to get to.

So give us a, something we would be surprised on that people search for on Pinterest. I would say recently, um, we are seeing people come our direction. Who, who are interested in ads or just, you know, want to know a little bit more about ads. Here's a fun one. Um, I like fun. Okay. It might be a little, it may be a little weird, but, um, people who create jewelry out of breast milk.

That's probably, that's probably the most interesting thing I've seen people searching for, uh, or an actual product on that I seen on Pinterest. Um, so there's that, but it's really. It's anywhere from, um, you know, stuff that you can DIY on your own. And whether that be, you know, buying products for that, or, I mean, it could be huge projects.

We have clients who sell giant like pergola kits, right? So there's a big variety of people who use ads on Pinterest. So it's really for, wow. I love that tidbit. I would have never. Have considered that was even a thing. Were you expecting that? Probably not. No. No. And I'm assuming our audience that's listening to this, probably wasn't expecting that either.

Very interesting. So we, we, we just talked about what someone uses Pinterest for and it's really. On there to get inspiration and for research. So arguably sake, they are more qualified user base than someone that's potentially online, even a tech talk or a Snapchat or Instagram and Facebook. So that's really, really interesting because people really are, Hey, Facebook works, Instagram works, LinkedIn works, but we don't here.

Pinterest works and. The argument is that they're more of a qualified person on Pinterest is probably going to shake up the grounds. And we'll probably use this as a clip for, for marketing this particular episode. So this is great. Um, so let's shift gears now and let's say, okay. Promoted pins. So talk to us about what is a promoted pin and, and explain that to us.

Okay. So back in early 2013, um, promoted pins were debuted. Uh, they started with a select number of businesses and then it wasn't until January, uh, 2015, but it was the available to all business accounts in the U S um, and now Krone pins or Pinterest ads can be, um, Done in 20 different countries around the world. Um, and even though, even though they were available in 2015, we didn't really start to really see them until about 2017 or so, you know, it always takes awhile. Basically what it is is it is, uh, whether you're talking about, um, Pinterest ads or Pinterest organic, which is, um, you know, using the non-paid version of, uh, Pinterest.

Um, they are vertical images, videos that, um, just inspire. Right. So that's essentially what it is. So, um, when you're talking about ads though, um, you know, there's, and I'm sure we'll talk about this, but. There's a lot of things that go into creating ads that work on Pinterest, just like any other platform.

Um, however, basically the whole point of a promoted pin or a Pinterest pin is to just inspire and get people to click. Talk to us a little bit about when this started happening and like, so it started, you said promoted pins really came out many years ago, but really it became open to the public as a self servicing platform. And in 2015, talk to us about like, when we really started seeing a lot of people advertising on it. Well, we first started, I mean, I would say even in 2015, we didn't really see a whole lot. And I think people were just not sure. Um, How it would work or if it was right for their business. Um, so about 2017 is when, um, we add simple pin media, started doing beta testing, um, on clients.

And that's when we really started to see people. But you know, it really wasn't even until about 2018 where we started seeing Walmart target, um, and co you know, Car companies and things like that. So it, it wasn't that long ago. Um, and what's really cool about, uh, search on Pinterest is that 97% of searches on Pinterest are unbranded.

So that gives a whole lot of opportunity for, you know, people to, um, to, to use Pinterest for, uh, You know, for people to find their brand and to really show what their products are and how they can be a solution to the problems that we're having. And, um, and so, I mean, it really hasn't been that long and it's, it's. We're still seeing a lot of space that's available. I think you and I had talked about before, how you scroll a couple of times through Facebook and you just see, you know, a couple of posts and then you see an ad and then a couple of posts and you see an ad and on Pinterest because they're native, it really kind of flows with what you're already doing on Pinterest.

And you really only. You really can only tell by a very small, um, uh, notification at the very bottom of the ad that says promoted by the brand. And so it's really even hard to tell when you're seeing a promoted pin or an organic, um, pin, which makes it kind of nice because it doesn't feel forced. And people are just naturally clicking because it's something that they've searched for.

So interesting. So w w with promoted pins, we really didn't see like some of the bigger brands coming in, stepping into 2018. Um, and, but, but it's been around for a while. So before we get straight, deep, deep into it, let's, let's talk a little bit about it for a second. Um, do we think that's more of. A problem with the platform not converting and people haven't heard good case studies or in what I think is my opinion is I think Pinterest itself has done a really poor job of marketing the advertising platform.

I'm a digital marketer. I've been in this space for a decade and a half, and I don't actively see Pinterest promoting anything. Right now you see tech talk for business all over the place, all over the place. And they're doing a really good job of promoting their self advertising platform. Whereas, Pinterest, I haven't seen that as much.

Right. So maybe talk a little bit about that. Is it, is it more because Pinterest has done a poor job of marketing their business platform or is it because there isn't good conversions? So that's a good question. I, I think there's a couple of things. I think the, um, the first thing that pops into my head really is that Pinterest went public.

Um, not until I believe it was, um, April 1st, 2019. That's my birthday. So that wasn't that long ago and it wasn't until then that we really saw a push because obviously now at that point they need to make money. Right. Right. And so prior to that, um, it's the free platform to share inspiration with friends and, and your audience.

And so I think that there's been, um, More of, well, I can tell you this right now. There's more of a push for people to stay on the platform. Historically, what happens is bloggers and businesses put, um, pins on Pinterest. They save pins to their boards and they're linked to a third party website. So if I have a blog, I post a picture of Pinterest.

And if someone's interested, they clicked on my pin and it goes directly to my website. Okay. So when that happens, Pinterest loses those people, right? Cause they're going, they're going off the platform. So now there's a really big push to keep people on the platform and through video pins and other story pins now. So there's a lot of other things that they're trained to do to keep people on the platform. Um, But what I would say is that we are seeing more. So if you're an actual Pinterest user, for example, there's a lot more prompts when you login to advertise and things like that. Um, there's a lot more reaching out to creatives to say, Hey, you have this great product.

I mean, and we're talking even just from like, Pinterest reps, Hey, you have this great product. Have you thought about advertising? So I, they are starting to do more of that now, but I'll be honest with you. I mean, you know, Facebook ads, I mean, they're very mature, right? Pinterest ads aren't as mature right now. And so there's still a lot of work that can be done and a lot of tweaks that need to be made in order for them to be, uh, uh, more. You know, in order for people to want to do them more. But what, what we're seeing is more of a push now, but you're right. I mean, before then, there, there was really no motivation before they went public to run ads.

So we're seeing it more. Now. It wasn't so much, uh, before 2019, but we're definitely seeing it more now. That's great. And so, I mean, that moves the needle for anyone going public, right. Investors, uh, are gonna ask for revenue and they want to see revenues increase in growth increase. So that totally makes sense that that was, um, the, the inflection point for Pinterest to start saying, Hey, we've got to start playing ball. Right. So really, really interesting. Um, that, that was, that happened in 2019. So for this to be considered a growth hack and for our audience to just five, that Pinterest is a growth hack. Let's get into some of the numbers and let's get into some of the data that to me as to why Pinterest is a growth hack.

And by the way, growth hacks are a matter of perception. Um, just for warning everyone. Um, I think growth hacks are where there's opportunity in the CPMs. Right, right. And so we, we we've discussed a lot about these CPMs in these numbers. So. Let's start there. CPMs cost per thousand, right? Why is cost per thousand? My metric for growth hacks. It's because these other platforms, um, measure on the same way and that's the universal number we can use to go from platform to platform to see who's got the, the lowest CPMs. So as an example, LinkedIn has some of the highest CPMs Tik TOK, Snapchat, lower CPMs. So let's talk about, uh, Pinterest.

What are the CPMs on the low end and what are the CPNs on the high end? Yeah, that's a good question. And because we're talking about hacks tear, I do have a few tips at the end, so just stay tuned. Is that like, is that like in the footnotes? Yeah. Yeah, no. Um, okay. So typically we see anywhere from about two to $4 CPMs, so, um, I honestly don't think I've seen anything of her in the fives. So high fours is probably the highest I've seen, um, CPMs and the twos we consider working really well, uh, mid to high fours. We can work on. Um, you know, we, we run, can we run campaigns with a conversion mentality? So that's our main focus, but in order to, um, you know, do that, we want to make sure that our CPMs, uh, stay in about the two to three low $4 range.

So I don't think I've ever seen anything in the vibes. Which is crazy, right? Because when you talk about Facebook, when I'm doing cold traffic marketing, I'm on the low end six on the high end 10 to 12, that's on average. And that's running really successful campaigns because there's people that are paying 20, 30, $40, uh, CPMs on Facebook.

Um, so the fact that you're floating in two to $4, I mean, that's an opportunity right there and that's why I considered a growth hack. And that's why we're on this episode talking about. Why Pinterest is a growth hack because those CPMs are low. And to your point, the big thing that we're talking about is CPAs cost per acquisition.

Really that's the final number, but the way to consider this a growth hack across the board is if it is a lower CPM. So let me ask you a question. Is there any remarketing being done on Pinterest or is it mainly new discovery? Marketing? Yeah, so. You, you can retarget groups like website, visitors, email lists, um, different types of, uh, events, checkouts, add to carts. Um, as long as you are set up that way. So as long as you, you know, prior to running campaigns, you set up the Pinterest tag correctly, you can re target all sorts of groups like that, uh, for warm audiences. Cool. Cool. Um, with that being said, let's talk a little bit about, um, the, the CPMs and how that relates to creative.

So based on what I've seen in my campaigns is definitely targeting is important, but creative is also incredibly important and creative drive CPMs for most of the campaigns that we're doing, if not all campaigns. So talk to us about how. CPMs tend to be higher sometimes and how they tend to be lower. And does that have anything to do with creative on Pinterest? My guess is if you were to say, why is Pinterest blower than, you know, Facebook, for example, I mean, there's so much more room right. To advertise on Pinterest. Um, and I, and I just think that, um, there's. Less opportunity on Facebook to get that lower, you know, amount.

And so I think maybe that, but I mean, creatives are a huge part of, um, of getting people to click on, on Pinterest. I mean, that is the, the visual of visual discovery. So there's a lot of important factors that go, that go into the creatives for sure. Got it. Yeah. And so my question is more so on, on Pinterest, forget about Facebook.

What, when you see someone who has lower CPMs or BA basically let's just call it CPH just for the sake of this. Right? Cause they're all tied together. If they have someone has a lower cost to acquire a customer on Pinterest, what tends to be the difference between someone who has a higher, is it just the price point? Is it the business or how does creative play into that? I think for the most part, what we see is the bigger the pool, the lower the cost. So. Um, you can manage your costs by, uh, tweaking your targeting. Um, so, you know, you can add in additional, um, relative interests, you can add keywords. Um, you add more audiences if you want, just to create a bigger pool for them to work with.

So I think. When we see. So if you're talking about how do we manage when we see CPM starting to creep up and get too high, we really start to, um, make that pool bigger and that can get our CPMs quite a bit lower. W which is so interesting, right? Because when my CPM start to increase on Facebook, I go the other way, I go more specific.

Uh, I don't go broader, um, or we change audiences, um, is what we do. So that's really, really interesting to see the polarizing differences there, uh, on Facebook and between Pinterest. Awesome. So how I approach all these platforms is from a media buying perspective. And what I mean by that is I am buying.

Advertising inventory. And what advertising inventory really means is I'm buying the attention of certain types of people. So the idea is who are these types of people and who are these avatars and how on the backend of Pinterest can I target these certain people? So as an example, just polarizing difference on LinkedIn. I can target someone who's in a very particular industry. Who's been in a party or industry for a length of time, right on Facebook. I can target someone who has an interest in sports, who has an interest in the LA Lakers, who has an interest in LeBron, James. I can target them based on those type of interests.

So can you start talking to us about what that looks like, and maybe for anyone watching this on YouTube can do a screen share and can kind of see what the backend targeting looks like on Pinterest. Yeah. So while I start to get in here, um, uh, from, from a targeting standpoint, we have interests, keywords, demographics, so we gender age device, and so on.

And as far as, um, location goes, well, you can get down to zip code. Wow. Okay. Yes. And, uh, then, you know, you can always create active like audiences, um, and, and, and things like that with your events, but I'm going to show you here. Um, just kind of what it looks like. That'd be great. And we'll for those that are listening to audio only, we'll obviously talk through what we're actually seeing. Yeah. When you are creating a campaign in Pinterest, um, you want to choose an objective and there are, there are different ones. We have brand awareness. Video views, traffic conversion, and then catalog sales primarily. Um, and I'll talk about this a little at the end, too, because this is kind of the, one of the hacks I want you to leave with.

But, um, you know, traffic is really to increase traffic, um, lead them to a destination off of Pinterest, um, in conversions is, um, you know, you want people to be able to take an action or a convert. And so when you, when you set this up, uh, we've looked at targeting. And so again, we have audiences, you can create your own audiences, um, by either using the tag or uploading email list, whatever it might be. And then we get to interests and interests. When you set up a Pinterest account, Pinterest asks you to identify interests that you're. Interested in it. And so they give you a, I think it's about nine options. Okay. So you go through, you click what you're interested in, either as a business or user, can you share what the options are?

Yeah, I mean, there's a ton, but these are the basics. So animals, architecture, art, beauty, children's fashion design, DIY, and crass education, electronics entertainment, event planning, finance food, and drink gardening health home decor. Men's fashion, parenting, quotes, sports, travel vehicles, wedding, and women's fashion.

Now in those main categories, there's lots of other categories, so you can get pretty specific and it will tell you, so like in women's fashion, for example, you know, you can get down to dresses, jumpsuit, rompers, you know, can you do parenting? I'm interested in that one parenting. Yeah. What's in parenting. Baby childcare, um, parenting advice, toddlers and preschoolers, and then insight. I mean, there's lots. So there's lots of interest here because we can select, you know, for selling, um, you know, baby announcements or custom, you know, invitations or something like that. You can go as, as low as. You know, selecting an interest for baby announcements.

And do you see this growing over time? Yeah, already has. From the beginning there wasn't always all these options. Um, and so it has broadened, so yes, I imagine it will continue, especially when we look at who's on Pinterest right now. Um, because it's, so it's primarily. Um, like millennials, I would say those make up the biggest pot, but there's also a lot of, um, uh, Gen Z, which they're the most, uh, right now they're the most active on Pinterest, but then we also have a lot of, um, gen X-ers who, um, up until the last year where the were the primary, um, age.

So I imagine, um, these would continue to grow or expand. As they really see who's on Pinterest. And I will say too, like, um, for example, in men's fashion, uh, that there weren't as many categories, you know, last year, so now they're starting to bring in more categories. And so, um, so yeah, I do think they're going to add as, as that goes along, the next thing is keywords, which this is the big, this is really.

Where you have to do your homework. So Pinterest has a tool called trends and what we do is we. We take the product, whatever it is, whatever the offer or product is, and we type it into trends and it basically tells us how it is trending currently or how it trends over a period of time. And what we want to try to do is we really want to try to identify how people are searching.

For the product that we want them to see. Um, and so sometimes when you're coming from the business side of things, it can be hard because you really have to put your shoe in the user or yourself in the user's shoes. So it's like, if they're looking for, um, Like men's jackets. Are they typing in men's jackets or are they typing in like outerwear for men or what is it that they're doing?

And so what we try to do is we try to get at least 50 to a hundred keywords in here to start with, and then you can kind of on it as you go along, as you see, um, What's spending and not converting or so on. So you can really kind of like audit as you go along. But this allows you, it's a minimum of 25 keywords, but you can, um, really put as many as you want in there to reach that audience.

You mentioned this earlier, now that we're seeing how many targeting options there are. I was gonna ask you, um, talk to us about what you can upload into. Um, this advertising platform, what kind of data can you upload? So basically the audiences you can create are visitors who went to your website, a list of customers that you upload.

So it has to be a CSV file, um, an engagement audience that engaged with your pins and then an act like audience, uh, related to one of the events that you've been following that you've been tracking. They really did not want to call it lookalike. No. Right. I know. No, it's funny because sometimes we have clients who, um, You know, actually, oftentimes we have clients that come from already having done Facebook ads to doing Pinterest.

And you can tell where the lingo comes from. Cause I'm like, uh, we mean lookalike it's actually, but yes. So, um, so those are, that's what you can do. So basically as far as uploading, uh, it's uh, like email lists, uh, CSV files, or you can, um, You select audiences, uh, from events from your Pinterest tag. So there's some great remarketing opportunities here, especially with the low CPM.

So this is a growth, another growth hack. The idea of being that you get someone from a more, you know, costly platform, call it Facebook or Instagram, and you're paying, you know, Five all the way up to $12, $15 CPM. When you're talking about bottom funnel stuff, sometimes I'm paying 15 to $20 per CPM. You could come back to Pinterest and run some coal, uh, some warm or hot traffic ads that you know is a qualified user because they've engaged with your website and you're going to pay lower CPMs. I mean, that's a growth hack right there. Yeah, a lot of people, uh, go back and forth or, um, you use, you know, Facebook too. Actually, I know, I know some people who do both directions Pinterest first and then do ads on Facebook or Facebook first and then run ads on Pinterest. So it's interesting. People have found their way around that.

Um, but going into, uh, the next area we have gender age. Location languages and device. Um, and so we, you know, obviously we have different categories, 18 to 24, 35 to 44, so on and so on. Um, and then you can pick specific locations. So it's either us or there's countries, regions, Metro areas, and then postals that codes. Um, so. Now that is obviously good for things like brick and mortar stores. Um, the other day, um, we were talking to someone who interested in doing ads and they are a, um, they do eye exams. And so they were looking for, in, uh, people to do eye exams. And so, you know, something like that, you really need to target into, uh, the zip code.

Yeah. And what's really interesting is, I mean, even econ, it is affected by location because you can't sell surf boards in Kansas. Right. So you're going to sell surf boards and cope more coastal regions, so it can really help e-commerce. So to hopefully not make this a two hour episode, why don't we wrap up by talking about creative and maybe showing some examples and talking through some creative, please, if you don't mind. Yeah, of course. So. The biggest, there's a couple of pointers I like to give. Um, obviously vertical is, um, what we look at a thousand by 1500 or a two thirds ratio is what we look at. Um, you really want to showcase the product or the offer. We want to have the logo on there, small, but obvious. We want to have text over the overlay that really tells, um, the story and tells the user exactly what they're going to get.

Having a good call to action. And the biggest thing is making sure that they're mobile friendly, um, 87% of people who use Pinterest are on mobile. And so it's really, really important that they are mobile friendly. So I have a couple here that I'll show you. So this first one, uh, they're both really similar, but we have everything we need here.

So. So it almost kind of looks like a story on Instagram stories. Yeah. So, you know, we have, um, the Loco and the, so this is one that did very well. This is, um, for our, we have a free download for, um, image creation, how to create images on Pinterest. And it is a, uh, uh, an image guide. And so this is a free roadmap.

Well, what we have here is we have lots of, kind of open space. Um, it doesn't dry your eye everywhere. Um, we have the call to action, which is the download now, which allows people to know that as soon as they click and sign up, they'll get their download. Uh, we have free on there and this is actually, uh, to a tripwire page where we do sell a product.

And so, um, there's lots of funnels. That's another podcast altogether, but anyway, um, so, and then the, the biggest thing is making sure that once you've created it, it, it looks, um, Legible on, on mobile. And then the other one that we have that also did really well is very similar. Um, the old image guide, uh, for creating Pinterest images that convert.

And so what we're telling people is exactly what they get. They get a guide that tells them how to create images, that work well on Pinterest, and it's a free download. And so this one also did very well because, um, you know, it tells you exactly what you get when you click. Nice. These are really cool. Um, just for anyone who's listening to the audio, only what you're looking at is a vertical format, just like Instagram stories. And what they've done is, um, they've done this for their company, simple, simple pin media, and they have the logo at the top below the logo. They have their main huge CTA, which is. The ultimate guide for creating Pinterest images that convert, and then behind that they have an image of like a laptop at kind of like more of a stock looking photo to kind of represent the image.

Then at the bottom. It's there a CTA button, which has free download. So it's a very simple graphic, but it's straight to the point and it's got a very clear message like we see with, with popular Instagram, uh, content, um, on stories that perform well. There's not a lot of words. It's a low amount of words, so you really need to make sure.

Whoever's creating this content for you is going to have really good converting, you know, uh, copy. So this is really, I mean, I'm, I'm assuming if I was in the market and I wanted a Pinterest images that convert, I would click on this and obviously go to the trip wire. So this is really nicely. Well done. Yeah. Thank you. You only have two seconds. To grab a scrollers attention. And so it's really important that you have images that stand out, that they are, um, quality images that you're getting your point across and that you able to read it on mobile. And those, those are the main things. When you're creating an ad for Pinterest.

Nice. Well, before we wrap up, let's go over. You've got some hacks for us. So I'm really, really excited for this because that is what my podcast is, is growth hacks. So talk to us. What are your Pinterest growth hacks? Okay, well, so this is something that there's two things I want to leave you with. So the first thing is. You may not be ready to start running ads on Pinterest right now. Uh, it may just be something that you're learning about, but even if you're not ready, install the Pinterest tag on your website as soon as you can. Okay. Because the problem that happens is people decide, I want to start running ads right now.

And then. Adding the Pinterest tag becomes a part of that process. However, Pinterest doesn't have any data then. And so it's really important to make sure that as soon as you're even thinking about using Pinterest for your business, install the Pinterest tag on your pages with the events, as soon as you can. That's that's number one. Um, because you're already going to have a lot of information when you start running ads. Okay. Number two. When you start for the first time running ads on Pinterest, start with a traffic ad. Okay. So start with the traffic campaign. You're going to identify your audience at a lower cost. And you're going to warm up your tag at the same time. Then in order to get the lower cost conversions, you switch to a conversion campaign. Okay. And then you allow the Pinterest tag to find those people who are going to work to convert to your product. Okay. Once you're done with that, you can go back and retard that on a traffic campaign.

So that is how we have found a, to get the lowest. Cost on Pinterest ads. For the most part, you start with the traffic. Do a conversion campaign and then end with a traffic campaign with your warm audiences with retargeting. So question about that. Do you end a campaign or are you actively running the traffic to the conversion to back to the traffic or do they, you end one and stop one and turn one back on and going back and forth.

It really depends on what the product is. Some, you know, We talked about, um, the creative that I showed you leading to a tripwire. Right? So when you have things like that, when you allow people time to decide, sometimes you run campaigns at the same time. Um, but depending on what the product is, if it's a, if it's a shippable item, if it's, um, uh, uh, like whatever, it might be like a, a book let's say, uh, you may want to. Right on the campaign, stop it, start the new campaign, stop that and then rerun. Um, but it's really, it, it really depends on what the product is and how much money you want to spend. But we have found that that tends to be, uh, the way to get the best results with the least amount of ad spent. Nice. So what's really interesting here.

Aaron is listening to you talk about sort of the experience with Pinterest, how it all got started, how promoted pins evolved then the. Targeting on the backend and how you target. I mean, I got to tell you, there is so many common denominators between Pinterest Facebook and all these advertising platforms, because it's just what makes sense.

Right? You have to target people. So you're going to have to do something you want to warm someone up. So you're going to run a, a traffic ad. You want to get them to convert. So you're gonna run a conversion campaign. It's so much of the same theories that you're finding in Pinterest. Apply to Facebook. So you can take a lot of the strategies that you use you're using on Facebook and shift over to Pinterest.

I think the special thing that we should pay attention to is the creative though, because the platform is different in that way. Right. And so creative is the big piece, right? When you're talking about shifting from platform to platform. So. By the way this episode has been fantastic. I have not really spoken to someone on a platform that I had knew really nothing about, because I don't know about Pinterest.

I don't have a Pinterest account. I don't want any paid Pinterest, anything. So that's great. That's great. No, honestly, it's been wonderful, Erin. Um, I know we've been trying to work on this episode almost for a year now. So the fact that we got it, I really, to you and Kate, thank you. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, it's been, it was, it's been testing on, uh, on me to try and get episodes and, and get these things done.

So really, really appreciate your time. Uh, thanks everyone for listening. We really appreciate you. Please come back next week. We've got a great episode on branding. Uh, we've got a great guest, um, but anyways, Take it easy and thanks for joining growth hack.