Episode 7: Create Videos That Won’t Be Scrolled Past

Episode Summary

With a flick of a thumb your ad is no longer relevant. This is because someone doesn’t think your ad is interesting enough and they use their thumb to scroll to the next post. If you want to create content that stops people in their tracks you’ll want to listen to this episode! Learn how to grab your audience's attention and lead them to act with growth hacking strategies and tactics used by successful Creative Director Camille Smura. Learn what to A/B test for so that you always put your best foot forward with your video content.

Audio Transcript

Welcome to growth hack by poppy digital tips and tricks to master the algorithms from industry insiders. Now here's your host, Julian Espinosa.

Welcome back to another episode of growth hack with me, your host, Julian Espinosa. On this podcast, we break down marketing channels, such as Google, Facebook, Instagram, and show them how to make them work for you. In episode five, we talk about how social media has changed marketing and the need for video today's episode is how to create videos that drive action.

The question is how is it possible when consumers know and can smell a commercial coming? Creating videos that drive action is no longer about features and benefits. Consumer behavior is telling us they want to be entertained. Think about it for a second. Do you go on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube to see ads?

No, we don't. We want to see things that are funny things that excite us things that are interesting to us. The big question then becomes, how do you make a video? That's funny, interesting, exciting. While still promoting your company, your brand, your product and your service step in someone called a creative director. The role of a creative director is to solve for just that. Making a video, entertaining the watch while delivering the brand message of the product. Lucky for us. We tracked down a successful creative director here in Los Angeles to share her process. Welcome Camille Samara. Welcome back everyone to today's episode videos that drive action.

My guest, Camille Smura. We're going to be talking about videos, how they drive action and results and KPIs behind them. Welcome. Thanks for having me, Jillian. Yeah, absolutely. Don't normally talk about how I met someone, but I think this is a really unique way. So I'd like to start off by saying how I met you. I was listening to a podcast and Camille's name came up in a podcast, which we can't even recall which podcast it was. And she came up very organically. Someone mentioned her name and mentioned some of her work and some about something about her videos and creativity. And for me, I'm always doing video and driving action and all those kinds of things.

And I went and took a look at, yeah. This is a really unique lacrosse problem line. And I found her website and I saw one really, really interesting video that really caught my attention called Eargasms. So I'll let us play the Eargasm clip right now. Hey, Dave, I want to give you an ear. Gazumped what bear Madam. No, here again, it's a high fidelity earplug that allows you to rev your sweet ride without worrying about the damage caused to your ears. When riding your bike, the noise levels can reach a devotee 100 decibels that can cause hearing loss. And as little as 15 minutes, that's a lot of decibels. Thanks. I do look good in pastels and these babies are made of a hypoallergenic solstice. So you can wear them comfortably on long rides.

So Camille was the creative director of this project.

Why don't you tell our guests a little bit about this? Cause this is this one's amazing, right? Yeah, that was a super fun project. So I was part of the the initial ideation crew, the, the client come to us and they wanted to do this campaign based on you know, their, their name inherently is, is pretty funny.

It's your guys and the product is, you know, very demonstrable and Oh, sorry. It's It's a, an earplug. But it's it it does the thing where it like automatically adjusts to the quality of noise. So it's not just like a foam, you know, thing in your ear. It's more of like a you can still hear dialogue through it.

So if someone's talking about a loud concert or if like your buddy and you were riding on a motorcycle, you can hear your buddy without getting all the damaged decibels to your ear that actually caused damage. That was the whole point is they wanted to sort of demonstrate the different scenarios tradable use and which is sort of sell online.

But it's it, it does the thing like humorous scenarios. So naturally we had a blast writing you know, that get us a campaign series that use. And so I did the first one that motorcycle one and it was just a blast. We got these really awesome and real bikers down and they brought all that. They're all getting older and all their bikes.

And we gave them these desperate gas sums, and we just had a fun time sort of developing. So that was a fun ways to hear the different things, but also rhyming words. Directly, it just became this larger sort of idea that we could then create a hero video and then cut it down. But in these humorous scenarios, so naturally we had a blast writing.

So it was basically like a campaign series cycle on a website. And it was just a blast. We took these really awesome Riker's down and they brought us as many clients. So talk to us for a second because we want this episode to definitely. We want to show the data behind video, why video is important. It just became this larger sort of my personal interests are like, how do you get to that creative?

And so then it created an entire, the name already was funny. We know that the client by the name of the company is already willing to not be super conservative, which is always helpful for us. Right. So talk to us just for a minute or two, how did you get into that? How did you get into the mindset of definitely coming up with something so like a unique and funny.

So the first thing I like to always start out with is that creative is not a guarantee, right? It was one of those things, which is, you know, it's either you can be, cripplingly fearful of it because there's no sort of like direct formula to it per se. But also within that, it also has the possibility to be as great as you want it to be.

Right. So that's why I like to think that. You know, with creative, you have the potential to scale higher than any other factor that you have within sort of like the marketing funnel video, is that much more important because we'd have mine that apart from, you know, photo audio sorted that we start out with is like versions of, of, of content creative content video is the only one.

That's either worms as well as, as you're following, you know, cause there's this, you know, we had the, we had the. Eargasm right. And of course with that comes the suite dialogue component. Right. So that's why I liked her, you know, creative. So with that, we still sort of developing these unique scenarios. We wanted to be very visually striking. So that would examine the motorcycle later where we did one at a concert and we did one in sort of like another version scape. Content creators it creating this very visually, just the only one that locations, if you will, and then putting these memorable. So with this, you know, we had that, that's how it works.

Like any, any sort of short form content, like a television show or a movie, it all sort of is the same opponent. Same formula, which is to develop a sort of creating a visually striking, striking, and then cycle for that. You know, most people don't watch past the first concert, half to three second one, if they really want to invest in it, chances are, if they're creating this narrative, Then they're going to watch the whole thing.

And then so with that, we sort of were able to match, you know, that sort of wedding value props in there and demonstrating the product read along while also adding some humorous elements in there. And again, like you said, the client being willing, but also far with the creative was that much more work, which is helpful for us.

It's a lot easier to have sort of a slate to work with. And then we just sort of made sure that, you know, we were able to get some pretty product shots in there. I mean, the value prop is really want, we're actually staying longer on the video. We found an update of it because they were that much more interested in the narrative, which we don't often, you know, indirect response.

We started with that. We sort of those that I'll talk about the rules later about sort of, you know, hitting product value props first and foremost, and hoping they don't click away. But this is sort of the formula for video where we think we're going to stay on it for awhile because it was entertaining and it was funny and it wasn't, you know, it was, it was it was hooking that they were going to stay most of it.

Cause they wanted us to measure that, you know, we were able to, to get some pretty proud of we we've had a couple conversations and one of the big reasons why I invited you as well. Being a guest here is I'm much more interested. I rarely meet a creative that understands the creative process who understands the analytics behind hitting the media buying side.

So I'm the owner of my company, but I'm also the media buyer, right. So I know the media buying really, really well. And I have yet to meet a creative that understands the media buying side of it has to understand, like we have one and a half seconds to capture someone. Right. And so that was a big reason why I wanted to bring you on and I have tons and tons of questions.

So hopefully we have enough time, but let's get into it. I think the first thing we want to start with is so why video, why now what's going on? So on average, we find that people are scrolling through 300 feet of timeline a day, 300 feet. So literally like if you had a ruler, like yeah, 300 feet. Yeah. That's like over a quarter mile. I think. So that's, I mean, that's a ton. I mean, if you look on your iPhone, it'll tell you the average we're spending, what, four to five to six hours a day, that's a lot of scrolling because most of what we do is we're sitting on our social media apps and we're just looking for the next thing.

Right. And and these sort of timeline feeds have allowed it so that we are it's, it's almost like, you know, the whole online dating app thing, which is, you can just go on average. It's just instant feedback hundred new options everywhere. Right? Which is overwhelming to say the least. But within that scape, you know, we're also able to get that many more overboard ads out there. So we find that within that you have to find a way to many what we'll store to five is six stop scrolling. We call this timeline, stopping thumb, stopping. What have you, that's the sort of element of a video, the timeline it's almost like reading. Which is you can just swiping, scrolling, clicking, it's just non-stop feedback and getting overwhelming.

But yeah, we also find that 12000% more shares. So we find that when that text and images combined, so we're really priming Forbes for the audience there. Again, even if you're, even if you're animating photo element into a video form that much more, like let's say like a review video, right. Where you have. Texts and you have the, the product image, it's going to be that much more effective in stopping the purchase from just having a static, you know, carousel ad. But yeah, we also, and then also we found that video viewers retain 95% of a message when they watch it. And 10% it in text texting. And that's just sort of the obvious thing of that.

They, they tend to absorb more as they listened to it and also want, they have individual elementary Academy. Photo where people don't have to read a video copy is great, but I'm really going to distill it down. I also find that in the rules of threes, I tend to also keep my copy to three words frame if I can. Just because I don't really listen or and then, so those are just sort of things. As short and as quick and as memorable as possible, you're just creating it for the day. They tend to ignore as they listen to it. And also when they have that visual element attached to it. So again, like I mentioned earlier, traditionally, we'd, you know, copy is great.

It's really traditional marketing. I also heard that, but nowadays it's one also five seconds. It's just sort of the. Or the team, if I can, the staff, we always say like the first, you know, six frames, you got it already. We don't like to have any sort of anything before that. It's it's, you know, we, we, you know, we really base everything around these.

I'll go in a little bit later about what a hook is and what describe a hook. But yeah. Yeah, if you're not hitting it with your person, you know, if they don't see somewhere, they're going to stop that again. They're just scrolling through 300 feet of timeline to get now a day on average. So, you know, they're, they're going to keep scrolling, so you really have to have the very first image in the first place you're getting at. Is that really be a lot of content consumed on the internet. And video by the data is showing that it is stopping, stopping comes and is it's performing. I mean, Oprah is better than if you're not hitting it first and foremost, if they don't see. So yeah, it's sad. It's just immeasurable the quality of the feed timeline to get through in advance.

Yeah. That's really interesting, definitely in this podcast, episode seven. So we've definitely covered some of the major reasons why. Facebook Instagram and all these big players are putting an emphasis in video, on their algorithm. Right. Time spent on app is a huge, Oh yeah. KPI for wall street numbers and all those things.

So that is really, really interesting breaking it down. So that leads leads us into our next part, which big questions is in video and direct response. Right. So. Major reasons if we're at episode seven, hopefully by now, everyone knows that we can't convert someone off of a first time view, a first time landing page visit. We got to bring them back. How do we, how does video and D and like, what does that conversation look like at your organization? It's actually pretty great because within the, you know, the Facebook ads manager platform, we can actually look through all those specific. We can literally look through a video and, and sort of see the drop-off rate as, as the time goes on and sort of the viewership goes down.

We can also see at what point people, you know, clicked through the video to get to the landing page, to get to the website. Right. Yes, analysts are incredible. And so, you know, if a video is performing well, we like to do, is we like to AB test a lot, obviously. So are running multiple versions of a video with different hooks, with different text, with different, you know, it just geared maybe towards audiences, just very slightly, very, very small tweaks, the same video just geared towards different audiences.

And we're able to sort of look at it and look through the specifics of, to see the drop. This type of person watched this video, you know, two to three seconds Mark. And they clicked through, but this video, everyone dropped off the video second. And no one think there. What happened? The website? Why is it analytics? We were able to test them performing other videos and future creative based on those learnings. Yeah. So we're not ever really seeing that as much as we can. Again, like I said, it's not a guarantee maybe towards the, you're able to sort of see the metrics to light leads or fine tune your creative same video.

There's no rules in creative, but we like to say there's guidelines for eight ways to sort of like add, make it a little less hard for you to fail with it. So you can sort of take video into the metrics and use those findings to, to sort of innovate the next creative with those findings. You're just going to have an easier time getting those separate creature audiences and plus the guests were not ever.

So, if I hear, I heard you correctly, you are potentially producing several books. Oh yeah. There's no rules then you're AB testing like hooks. I mean, there's also hooks are the big things. Obviously those are sort of like the main concern for me in terms of the metrics, but Yeah. I mean, it's easy enough to sort of innovate, you know, AB test a bunch of different versions of the same video, because obviously I'll go in these later time, videos are expensive to produce sometimes, right?

This is a baseline. So if someone, you know, if a client doesn't have the budget to create a whole campaign, like, you know, like we did for Eargasm for example, but we can then sort of take what we do have and maximize it by tweaking. It only takes an hour of editing time to sort of make the difference between in post.

Yes. Nope. Yes. That's what we're able to get better metrics out of that without having to spend too much money, you know, AB test a bunch of different versions of the same video videos are expensive to progression process. You guys a baseline. So someone who's a client doesn't have the budget to create a whole campaign. Like you sort of have the middle part of the, for example we can just sort of take this and maximize it by big thing is testing the elements of it, which only take, you know, our editing. Do you test anything in the middle and then anything on the end, what we're able to get better, like data that winning would suggest that something is happening in sort of the middle or the end, but typically like, I mean, when I'm pitching a client for a video, I will typically give them five hook versions in that first deck that we're sort of, you know, looking at.

Working on because that's just such an important aspect of it. And it can be anything from like a textbook to a video hook, just like we'll, we'll shoot off modular videos. A lot of the time that can be like, like this, this Eargasm video is a very sort of narrative if you will. Right. But not everything we do is, is in that realm.

In fact, I'd say for C about like data that would just make her actually in that sort of like humorous, typically, like, I mean, landscape, a lot of the stuff we do is a lot more, give them five bucks, you know, direct to camera. It's a lot more modular people to sort of work as much of it. And the middle does, is it predicated by the beginning video poker, you can sort of shoot, well, I'll shoot a video with scenes if I'm going to do your thing.

And then that way you guys in sort of start the video on any given scene and everything . If it's a, you know, if it's about up on your doorstep package, portion, unboxing portion, it's just a pretty product shot, escalation. Those are all the systems that are different, you know, towards the right parts of the funnel and thereby, you know, sort of new audiences and just sort of like, you know, the middle test is that way too. Right. What's interesting. So I'll shoot a video with five principles of what you're talking about is that you don't know if you're going to get it right. Right. Knowing the guarantees. And so that conversation is happening. I'm assuming what the client on the front end, right. You guys are saying, look, I don't know, what's going to work.

I'll find out. Right. That being said, we do have a whole plethora of videos that we have created, that how it works. You can give your audience a good guarantee that, you know, it's not going to fail. If anyone ever tells you that they know the way to make it work, they're probably lying to you. So that's interesting because yeah.

We haven't gotten too much into it, but one of the principals I have when I started my company two years ago, my goal was to create a company that I won at 100%. Every single campaign was, was a win, right. And as I said, we do have a whole plethora of, I learned a lot. We can give you a plan. The big things was qualifying the customer.

If we do a really good job in our qualification process and we disqualify everything that needs to be disqualified. We're likely to be left over with. We know what's left, we know that we can win on these campaigns and those are who we accept as customers. So we do like an insane qualification process before, like I've denied a customer because of their logo in the first year.

I mean, that's just like there was, and it sounds kind of brutal, but like it was, we had a difference of opinion on that. The brand name of the company. Right. And so I denied them because I felt like I wasn't going to be able to be successful with this type of branding. So. We're likely where I, how we talk about it with our clients is like, we're not guaranteeing, but we have a system to produce results. We will iterate until we get it right. Yeah. Right, right, right. So you say you do five hooks. I typically do a six, I mean tomato, tomato, right. Five or six. I do six. And then I test like with three different target audiences. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And see, just, what's going to stick with what audience, like what are they going to respond to?

We don't know what people will laugh at. Right. We w we don't know. So that's so great to hear that you guys are producing that and it's, and it's beautiful that you can do that upfront. Now here's the kicker, right? Because. Until we get it. Right. Right. This is all great and dandy, but then it comes to the budgets and the money.

Right. So like those five hooks, right. How different are they? Right. Right. Because you know, when it comes to budgets, right. Do you have to film those on different days? No. The reality is they're going to give you a budget that a is not going to be even close to being enough and somehow you have to make it work. Right. So talk to us about how you're now taking the creative side. The media buying side and adding the practicality of where we live today, where no one wants to spend money on brand equity and making videos. Right. Right. Well, so it's funny. I've I've worked in sort of like the larger commercial branded content space as well.

Right. And it's funny how much that holding a traditional side of advertising is just coming to be exactly. Right. So the sort of model that we're using and sort of digital marketing, which is where maybe the, the sort of a younger cousin of that sort of realm, but it's all just becoming the exact same thing, which is, you know, shoot as much as you can.

Okay. And, and, and always optimize for social because that's really what's selling nowadays. Right. So yeah, I mean, within making budgets work, I mean, we're able to make things work. It's funny where we are in that sort of like a fine tuned process. Again, I've been sort of working in the ground, over 40 people. So it's just of sort of It's sort of on their own and I've grown with it. And we've all sort of been able to find that younger, you know, it was in that sort of, so we're able to keep that with certain talent and locations, as much as not in tan equipment nails, all those sorts of basic things like the budget, but also within that, you know, we're kind of thing.

For 16 by nine, whichever tube should we are in that sort of to be able to be processed one by one, I've been sort of wardens to ground up this sort of Instagram story aesthetic, which I'll talk about later. It's it's a little harder because you really can't make it look good for fine widescreen 16 by nine in that vertical we're able to do nothing, just very possibly, you know, having a bank set within the landscape, you can frame images, all the screens, et cetera, created with it.

But also within that, you know, we're always shooting for, for 16 by nine. So we've just gotten really good at sort of shooting for both always and making sure that, you know, a bare minimum, you know, we're shooting this sort of instance shooting wider enough to sort of work later both. And then that way we never have to, you know, shoot more than you know, but yeah, we're getting as much as we can.

We're using different talent recycling through people, whereas we're just getting sort of like , we're not wasting frame, right. We're doing fewer setups and resetting still parts of the house. And we're also purpose for camera shoots with two different drafters. Just gotten really good at the size of vocation and sound between, you know, maybe bare minimum sound, no sound for both shoots three different.

And then that way. The same spot or three things at the same time. So yeah, we're getting a switch that, you know, it's that much more of a sort of where we're just getting sort of like a meteor. And also, you know, it's, it's for social, this isn't broadcasting, so it's a little bit lighter in the preset sort of post and production aspect of it.

We still do some very, I think cinematic things like cameras, she hasn't swallowed. They're very nice. And that had a little more of a production cost to it because she looks down, we had to shoot at a biker bar, have a lot of bikers and, and you know, that sort of aspect of it. There's no sound, obviously it costs more. But even for that, I mean, at the same time you want a number, so that for like, it's, it's that, you know, it's that much more of, of sort of like it was, it really wasn't bad. It was insane. But again, it's the thing of like, we were able to, you know, it's, it's very lean. So it's a little bit, she doesn't much as we could sort of, you know, we have a photographer there on standby while we're shooting the video, we're shooting him. And that had a little bit of been heartburn and made videos while we're at the bar waiting for something, a lot of sites, we're doing all this stuff. We're getting some at GC with the cell phone. Obviously we're doing it like we're working as much, but even for this day, So that we're really monitoring numbers, budget, and like, you know, our reach across the funnel.

So we have it all within this. Like it was wasn't really what we're back. It wasn't the same concept again, it's the thing of like, we were able to. There's no book for this. Like you have a photographer shooting video. All the other agents were all just making up as we go right now, because I've been all of this is new we've essentially as digital marketing agencies have turned into production companies or had to bring in, okay.

People who understand production. Right. And so we're making it up as we go. And so to your point, that's what we do. Like I was given $15,000 to make a website, a brand commercials, product photography, and probably three or four other things in a minute. That's insane. Right. And so the only way. To be able to achieve that reasonably is with a one day production.

And I am the most important person on set for us on that shoot was our set designer. She's done like things for Nike and she was $1,800. And so I had to find a place where I could shoot at a home. And have a studio to shoot at. So what was it like within 12 minutes driving distance? She split her day in half between both studios.

She set design in the morning, and then she set design in the afternoon. Both things paid her day rate. She was happy. She got fed and she's out the door, but like, to be able to do that, normally you do that on two days. Yeah. Right. And so then I had my director between both sets. So it's rough. It's very hard. Yeah. Like we're making this up as we go. And, and like, it's funny because the net result, it sounds the same. We're just having to be creative. You're shooting, abandoned cart, shopping ads while the actor's is getting ready. Yeah. You know, like we were always just trying to get more content for different concepts.

If we can, again, the lower production value or guests or needs the easier it is to sort of do it in between takes or whatnot. That's rough testing early on the drug industry is testing all the time like that. That's kind of like the real life implication of it is, is no one has, again, there's no rules to this.

We're all just sort of in our own way, figuring it out. I just think it's funny how we on separate sides of, you know, maybe the same city, but separate sides of the whole thing. We're both. Figuring out the same concept, you know, like we were trying to get a miracle of, of the sort of human ingenuity, if we can, it is value.

It also is easier just to sort of do it in between coming out from where we are today. Right. I mean, shoot, this entire industry is testing and that's kind of like the real life. The video wasn't big because we're all just sort of in our own technical capabilities, weren't there, but now that we can stream upstream and have devices, right.

So video now has become popular. Right. Right. And remember when Steve jobs, not Steve, but Steve jobs didn't put flash on the iPhone. Right. Right. And banner ads were flash. Banner ads were no longer a thing. So now like static banner ads. Right. So like we've seen, I think where you are at a point where like, When two completely separate people are trying to solve the same problem.

Right? Like we're, we're coming up with the same solution. Right, right. It's like the best one, hopefully, you know exactly. I mean, that's why I brought you on. Maybe, maybe I learned something, but it sounds like we're doing the same thing. Yeah. It's and I mean, you know, along with that, it's sort of the whole the fact that everyone is making videos nowadays you have, you know, tic talk and you have. Twitch and all that stuff. The, the need to be viral I found is a thing that clients are always asking for. And that goes back to my immediate point, which is, again, you can't, that's a, that's a, an external social factor. You really can't guarantee those results. You can again, try your darndest. Cause it's the best one, just sort of a incredibly organic thing.

So I find that virality is. Close to that point as, as you can, but yet really can't care for yourself for, you know, for, for that. As best as the viral I've found is that. In our conversation before we talked about rules of direct response, why don't you highlight some of those quickly? Yes. So direct response period. Again, I've worked across them and, you know, that's just relevant, but it's completely different from granted.

So I find that virality is, you know, broadcast commercials because it has stuff that's literally immediacy and conversion. So looking at you. Sales. Right. So we want to make sure that every person that stops on a video is also going outside the sale. And you're actually able to track that if you're running a Nike ad on, on, you know, on Sunday night football, they don't really have a way to track sales based on that.

You know, they can hope for it and they can sort of, you know, know that their brand is going to thrive. So they really can. Now we can literally track it, advertise it in that respect, but also know from branded content, we know that what we're doing is exactly towards somebody, you know, not even watching legal.

Immediacy and gross tasks we're looking at. So within that, and, you know, we have a bunch of different brands that we work with and you were filming a small e-commerce clients to larger, like as well. So those are running in Nike ads that are, they're all describing the kind of runs across the sales.

No respect for it. So again, understanding the platform it's you want to make sure that your aspect ratio is proper when you're doing your video, but yeah. Yeah. So aspect ratio is, is the size of your video frames. So on Facebook and Instagram and , which are just dimensions that you do work with your video in the editing process, but that's the largest portion of your phone.

That video can cut out on the cross if you will. So you want to make sure that you're to be a 16 by nine or widescreen, sorry. Widescreen yes. Versus a square. Yes. One by one to ask her three by five is a slightly narrow square, but it's your phone. Isn't exactly square across. So it's going to be four by five, which are humans about this.

We find that there's no real difference between one by one, but that's the largest portion of your request one or the other. But typically it's just about a square because that's, the phone is always YouTube on your, on your on your laptop. It takes up real estate that way, wide screen or phone, but you know, if they do one by one square four by five is a slightly narrow.

And then also, you know, Instagram stories square. They're assigned by segments about this exact slip and by one or for the vertical, and then clients will pick YouTube is going to be the other. But typically it's just about in that respect sometimes when people ask me, why don't you just own it? Elm every state vertical one could argue.

Yes. Laptop and sort of like the actual cinema camera, literally flipping it on its side. But I don't know. It's honestly that that's the way to do I can't really argue against it or for it, but then you're also potentially going to lose out on that aspect of kind of screen optimize for what you're doing by pushing further on which plus YouTube.

That's really interesting. I've done things that you've talked about. Right. I filmed in 16 by nine, and then I cut the rectangle in half and then I stabbed them. Right. So you can do that. There's so many variations to it. Like flipping it on like. I know, honestly, that that's the way to do that. I can't really argue with, so we never get to do what we really want to do.

It's funny because I feel like that's, that's the life of a creative person. You're always never getting the budgets you want limitations and that makes it fun. It does. It makes it fun and makes it challenging because if we had all the money in the world, then what fun is it exactly to that? So there's so many variables to it. What would be interesting is if I could afford to maybe shoot two days or at least part of the day in vertical mode and having a creative component to vertical. So that'd be interesting, but yeah. So is it, was there anything on your you're on your list of things to pay attention to for direct response?

Yes. So just to finish off the platform, issue that the number one thing else we haven't talked. But it's no sound. You have to assume that people aren't going to have those some on their phone. If you're ever going to be doing dialogue or any sort of like spoken part of your video that, you know, we usually don't do that kind of stuff, but if it's a demonstration or whatnot then Then you're going to make sure you have subtitles. I don't like to rely on Facebook auto subtitles because it's not very pretty and they're always on an accurate, so we usually have our editors sort of do a branded subtitle baked into the video. So just to finish off the and then just to make sure that's optimized for no sound music is always nice to them underneath. You're also making sure that your video with dialogue or any type of like, make sure that you have the motion graphics and animation video. Just showing, you know, visuals is not necessarily going to then show them, so I'm going to be demonstrating. I always like to smart, so it's always good to sort of have the value props and any kind of excursion or copper editor on screen.

So you're saying, taking a video, but it is what it is. It was always nice to have a text based frame saying like the motion graphics and concealed in your ear or whatever the value props are. I mean, to be honest, that's like sort of longer form version if I was to do it incredibly direct response person. So it's always in the frame and then huge explainer text coming up saying this is an orgasm or to give yourself in your gasoline or some fun little thing like that.

Right. Huge copy you can't miss it. And people are like, what the hell is in orgasm? And they watched the rest of the video. That's what I'm saying is it can be that simple. But it's having texts baked in. So it's not just subtitles, that's informing you of what you're hearing or what someone could be describing to you. It's it's simple, big, right? I mean, that's like, that's a huge component of it. Again, the hook is very important to her. It can be anything from asking a question like you have an issue with this, or, you know, texting me, we have a coffee client right now that we're working on your . So one of our hosts, what does strawberry cheesecake Cochise?

And they watch the rest of that's a weird question I'm saying is it can be that simple. You can also make a statement, not just subtitle. This is the best toothbrush or whatever it is. You can also use shock value or emotion. So we find that typically negative emotions don't work as well. That's your never anger again, the positivity humor works really well.

People like to share with us or like, you know, if you have that. Coffee client that we're working on working with, like the flavor element doesn't perform as well as strawberry cheese. It's a way to be tasteful, but typically, you know, using a more humorous side of them, you can also make a steak and then always you can, you know, whatever it is, you can also use shock value or emotion.

So we find that typically. So those are your tips and tricks. I can't wait to go back to listen to all of them and write them all down for direct response. So let's like, you know, if you have into the conversation working with like the

bedbugs and it's a waste, nothing in the funnel, but I'm typically, you know, using them more life things any better, and then always you can use a pretty bad shot. So first and foremost talk with the client and listen, don't really, I don't even recommend giving them any sort of pointers or yeah. Or really any recommendations until you really really know, not only the product strengths, but especially the pain points and the weaknesses, know what people are going to, what's going to stop potentially new consumers from buying your product and make sure that you work on how to mitigate those reasons, because you want to make sure it's right.

The customer has the easiest possible way to buy a product and that there's nothing holding them back from it. So I think first and foremost is a great shoe. What's not so good about it. I don't even recommend how to mitigate that and maybe even use a video to, to address those issues. You know what I mean, until you make sure that, you know, the product shrink from a competitor's brand voice some of our clients know is that really much of a brand to begin with.

So that's always fun. It's a little less direction, but. That makes more fun with it. But yeah, really sort of ascribing to the ethos of the company. And then also I recommend, you know, it just because a client that thinks they want something , this is a great w what's good about it. I honestly find it's much easier to sort of make it with numbers.

People like hearing that, especially businesses hearing that you know, maybe you guys wanna know the production targets. This audience or voice you know, like for example, like an anti-aging cream of a brand to be some people like to sort of focus on less direction, but they want to focus at my got really sort of ascribing to them, ethos, beautiful skin sort of a thing.

And then also they're, they're afraid to play shows. They want lists to look of, of actual older people and to have your skin ages. So, yeah. It really is like recommending to the client to do anything. So are you suggesting that data showing that showing real people that are really aging is better than the perfect? Yeah, that's exactly what I focused on. I think it's really not hard to prove that little point. You know, it's social proof, so both organic and skins. How, how do you actually show.

And example when there's no data yet for this particular client, how do you go then go get data from somewhere else? Like, how do you handle, let's say you philosophically don't agree on the creative meaning. We want to show. X people you want to show, why people, how do you show, how do you have that conversation with him? And I think it's really not hardcore. I mean, that's that's I guess a case by case basis, but and people want to feel, you know, it, it really just sort of goes and w we'll usually look at competitors and see what they're running, because you know, you can look at a Facebook ad library and see what everyone's running, and he'd give a moment and see what information we can dig up from there or anything.

We can dig up metrically, like I said, but if you really can't, I mean, you can sort of just come at, come at it to them as like. We only want to make you money, thereby this is what we think will work better and you can trust us because you're paying us for expertise. Sure. I mean, not really forced to do it, but if it's an actual moral thing, which it really, which, you know, that's sort of a thing where you can sort of choose if you want to do it, but God librarians, but in the end, it's, you know, the clients.

It's good to make sure creative, so, and they're ascribed to them, but you can only sort of push them as far as, you know, you're only enough for their best mattress, you know, there's no, I got no skin in the game really. They're like, this is more money and how you're better paying that much further, right? Yeah. So you don't have in the end.

Exactly. It's not, you know, it's not really going to benefit. I mean any way to size that sort of the thing was my client. And that's why I think like really making , they really know that you have their best interest in mind. There's no sort of alternative to what I described to them only helps me build that sort of client relationship you're in it for their best and going further into, into that.

I think it's more commerce stuff. I'm just, you're focused on product assets before you get in this sort of lifestyle stuff. I think he was like to jumps the gun. They see a beautiful branded content piece and they're like, I want that. I want the Nike. Right, exactly. It's not like, you know, it's not like in a benefit urban sort of thing.

Right. And first and foremost, we didn't really make building blocks, product imagery and just clear branding, the most basic sort of elements. And you have to start to build that sort of Clem, you know, clean, good photo. And then you can usually further, and you know, in this day and age you can sort of.

Fine. E-commerce the first video is one compromise on those things and just lifestyle is basic ground running. I'm going to jump the gun because people don't know what your product is, or if it looks clean, I want them to just talk to anyone, you know, setting up things. It's going to take you into the kind of phase or the King product, just clean branding.

It's completely basic elements central in terms of process. Make it as easy for, you know, really good photo and video usually. And then beyond that point, I would say, you know, budget is the first thing we talked about. So talking about this, you know, overall most people don't realize how costly it is just to sort of because of break into a production.

There's just basic, not cost to entry, minimum cost to entry, not just, you know, hiring a minimum crew, talented the patient, the equipment part. They're not exactly. Where it's like, you know, your small little video versus this big bill video, have a lot less of a budget gap than you think the small video is always going to cost a couple grand.

There's never going to be any budget is the first thing less, just because of the space overall people don't understand. Like I tell clients. Breaking into video. God, we need a cinematographer. When you're a director, you always put the automated, right. If you're doing audio. Right. Right. Of course. Right. And then like, yeah, there's just some things, right. It's like your location. Is there a location fee? Right. It's small stuff like that. Where I think some clients say, well, you know, it's only totally a hundred percent. It's only this, except that. You're always going to need certain elements. I think people are, there's just no scrapping that otherwise you will not get a video shoot.

Something will be missing something won't work out. And then there was the point of the video, if you don't even have, you know, if someone didn't back up the footage you'll have nothing less, et cetera, you know, if you're doing audio and then like, yeah, there's just some basic, I've seen certain elements of a production crew.

Yes. It's like that when you have an assistant camera a hundred percent, it's only when you have a certain element. Right? So like, we don't need to go super, super in the weeds, but like assistant director allows the director to stay in the creative versus figuring out if they know what they need to get done and they can get it done before the end of the day.

Yeah, it also makes sure that you're not going to go over your day and, you know, like an, a great creative director, I once worked with used to say, make sure you get a hundred percent of the commercial at 80% versus 80% of the commercial at a hundred percent. Right. Just make sure you get the bare minimum, all of it to have what you need.

And then you can focus on, you know, the rest of it later. Yeah, a hundred percent, you know it's just, you know, when when a client comes in, they say, we're can to do it for this much less than it's like, sure. You can do it, but maybe your footage will be soft. I can't guarantee, you know, it's small aspects.

There's a reason we're doing it on such a scale with magic. What we're able to do. I think between 160%. Commercial, but you know, within that, we are, we're already able to do it on such a low scales matter. You get the bare minimum for the problem value, and then you just focus on, you know, a certain point. But again, some people have no experience with creative and you also have to understand that. So, you know, when, when a client never done it, but you know, I can't carry, you know,stuff like that, where. Yeah, that's fine. But you know, with that, yeah. Like all of these small aspects of what the editors time editor, isn't just a, for the machine that sits there and does stuff with an hour, you know, it, it, it takes time, it takes up his but again, some people have, it's so much more of an endeavor and there's so much more just human cost to it than I think a lot of people understand, you know?

So that's why I'm always just like empathize. no, one's trying to screw anyone else over. It's just, it's a hard business. And what we're doing is basically stuff like that, where a miracle is out of the impossible. Yes. Yep. On that note we all said, okay, I like option two is the editor has existing assets or isn't just a machine.

There are really able to sort of find the re-cutting existing footage. And I'm so much more, again, into more sort of. Driven direct response content. So even just photo assets and texts, we're able to sort of video or any video content we're able to sort of work it for that or just optimize existing content.

On that note, we also do some titles, et cetera. They're all small things that will have been insane for some stuff and measurable are really change on, on the conversion rates and them into more, again. All right. So I don't want to put you on the spot, but I want to do something kind of unique here. I haven't done this with a guest yet, so you're the first person I'm going to be doing this with. Yeah, this is really interesting. So I've got a video series campaign where it's cold. Warm and hot and it's these three videos and I'd love to get your opinion on these three videos. I want you to watch them see them and kind of think through like, what were things that we did well, what are things that we didn't do well and just kind of your overall take on it. We've been talking about this particular client throughout the series of this podcast. And so we've taken them from like talking about target audience to frequency and all these kinds of things. So it'd be really cool to get your opinion on. The top funnel, the mid funnel and the bottom funnel for our audience that is potentially not listening to this chronologically.

And they're listening to this as the first time episode. This is the tooth very box it's reimagining the tooth fairy experience. So it's a box you get as a parent and you create this really awesome experience for your child. That it's not just about the $5 you're going to put it under the pillow. It's about the whole experience. The client has done a lot of market testing and the children like the feedback is amazing. Parents love it. It's fantastic. So I'm going to play for you top funnel. This is cold traffic video, and we're going to play it now. I'm a full-time working mom. And I always find myself tapping into hidden superpowers just to keep up with the rest of the world. And I'm the ambitious type. So I've really got to stay ahead of the game. I'm always looking for a chance to go above and beyond for my kids. Bingo time to employ my secret weapon.

Tooth very box makes it easy for me to overhaul all the entire fairy experience for my son because let's face it. I really don't have the time to be searching online and running around to craft stores all day. I'd much rather spend the time with my kid making a memorable tooth fairy experience. It's game time. Let's make some magic.

So thoughts. Yes. So great. I want to hear about your production process on that that whole things I'd love to hear sort of the, the process you went through. It's great. I think you are sort of I'm going to be as genuine as I can, but also, you know, just, I'm going to be, not mince my words.

I think you're missing a stronger hook. I think you know, you, it's sort of the longer form of the, of the whole. Piece. And it's great for, for prospecting and so, you know, sort of driving new, new client acquisition and brand awareness I do think you could use a little more, more text and value props and sort of some tighter shots in terms of like actually showing, you know, the demonstrated goods of the, of the box and whatnot and, and sort of showing those to, I guess the way I always look at it is if you're on your phone and you're shooting a wider shot, It's already so small on your phone.

It's kind of hard to see whatever's happening in the frame. So trying to keep everything tight, even if you're not sort of setting up the location in the narrative, it's going to be that much easier. So instead of showing a two shot of the mom and the kid, maybe we're just showing a shot of the kid holding the box and the mom giving it to him or whatnot, or reverse that.

But it's sort of like, you know, cutting it, I think in using tighter shots. So it was gonna be a little bit easier than playing out larger actions in, in a wider frame. So it's a small thing I noticed. I'll think we could, you know, repurpose this a ton. I know, I know you did sort of repurpose it for the different parts of the funnel, but creating a sort of, you know, testing more of a, maybe we do some sort of like a question hook there.

Like, what do you do when your kid, when you forget your kid's tooth fell out or whatnot, like posing these questions towards moms and maybe asking them a couple of different things or using as some other kind of You know, more of a visually stimulating hook, if you will to sort of get someone like we're talking about thumb stopping ability, like what's going to cause someone to stop on this.

You know what I mean? So I think that that sort of aspect of it, I think I would love to see developed a little bit more. Yeah. All right. Let's follow up with the mid funnel. So this is warm. This is after this is marketing to people who have actually seen. The first or potentially you've seen some landing page or visited a landing page from another marketing source, but basically this is a warm traffic ad and this is called a morning after.

All right. What'd you think also great much shorter, which is always good. In that respect, it's good. It's it's good for retargeting. I think, you know, it's sort of, you don't really have to explain too much about the product, especially if someone's already seen it. You're not going in cold to it. Right. So you're able to sort of hit the main points and not have to go too into it and just sort of like readdress readdress the value props that are going to be sort of primed at your, at your. You know, prospecting a customer. So I think that video does a really good job of that. Again, I think a little bit stronger of a hook or an intro in the beginning is always that much more, you know, that's part of the AB testing.

You can have a lot of fun with that, but otherwise yeah, the difference between the first one and the second one was the feedback that you gave in the first one is kind of what we did in the second one, the tighter shots, more of the product text-based so, okay. Got it. So you're saying. Almost introduced some of, a lot of that or all of it into the warm, I'm sorry, the cold say those guidelines I use for every video, no matter what part of the funnel we're doing.

I do think like the sort of like pairing it down and then, you know, just sort of hitting the value props that you want to hit. You know, in, in a shorter time span much earlier in the video are going to work better for retargeting versus like, you know, the more brand awareness, which is the longer form piece in the, in the bottom of the funnel.

You really want to sort of. You don't need to re intro a customer right. At the sort of mid funnel level. So I think that's why the shorter form, and then also using this text helps for that. It would have just been good to also have it, I think, in the beginning with the larger narrative as well.

Interesting. So you mentioned the hook on this one. We, we did a lot of surveys with customers and we heard something that. Parents or specifically mothers get, there's a particular phrase that they hear all the time and it's mommy, look, that's a constant thing that we hear. So that's what we threw it in there. So that's really interesting. All right, so we're going to go to bottom funnel. This is someone's added to cart and abandoned. This is multiple page visits. This is multiple site visits. This is someone who's really, really warm, but hasn't purchased yet. So let's hit play.

All right. So I think this is, this is also fun, but again, I think you can go even more specific with this. Like we like to typically for this stuff, literally do an abandoned cart video where we're targeting somebody with a, with a, typically a character from the campaign telling someone like you, who you forgot to put this, you know, in your cart or you forgot to click.

Hello. Like we go so specific into it. So it feels it was a little creepy because it's super personalized. But I think with that, you also have the ability to sort of keep it super tight. We usually don't make our. You know, top of funnel ads longer than 10 to 15 seconds. Sorry. The, the very, the closing, the closing yes. Retention ones. Yes. We usually make those 15 or less just because, you know, again, you're not trying to, re-educate the customer, you're just trying to sort of like nudge a little further to sort of get them to close the deal. If you will. It's, it's, it's a deal closer video. So I think I'm making those a little more personalized, a little more specified, not needing to really go into The, the, the value props or any kind of like, you know, brand establishing, which you guys, you guys did a good job of that anyway, but I think like you can really have fun with these things.

That's just a good sort of ideas is a shoot different versions. And just again, test and see what works because there's so many different templates you can use for this. Type of messaging that works. So yeah, this is fun. I think you could have almost like gone in a completely wild direction with it too.

And it would have worked just as well. This one was almost done two years ago, so we definitely learned a lot. It's great to get feedback. So hopefully you don't look like you're sweating. So it looks like we didn't No, I do want to hear about the process though. How was that? Yeah. You know, the process, so this was the 15 K budget and the entire do everything and it was very, very overwhelming.

I'll I'll move part of the conversation offline, but in short, there was a lot of assets that needed to be delivered. We didn't have a lot of time to do it and we had to just get it done. So it was like just. Late nights with my director slash creative director, figuring out how to do these things.

A lot of phone calls calling a lot of production, people calling a lighting guy at the LA at the 25th hour to get them in, to create a nighttime scene. I mean, you know, it's just like on and on and on. And it was just like a lot of late nights. There was. Well originally on that deal, there was probably like, there wasn't even profit.

It was, I also played line producer on set and I considered that the profit, but that like was written out when I at the 25th hour, we needed a couple extra things. And like, so there was like, No profit on that deal. In fact, there's we probably went negative. I just didn't want to run the numbers on it. In hopes that the client stays on and wouldn't get paid.

Yeah, exactly. On dividends on the back end. Well, Thank you so much for coming. This was amazing. I hope we can have you back sometime and pleasure. Yeah. And you can tear apart my other videos. Yeah. It's always fun to sort of you know, put on the glasses and sort of look into the, into the, you know, bare bones of what we make.

So it's really great. Thanks for having me. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.