Episode 9: How To Generate Leads Effectively on LinkedIn

Episode Summary

You know there's a sea of prospects on LinkedIn but you don't know how to attract them. If you want to have a breakthrough in leveraging LinkedIn for profit, you need to tune in for this episode! Learn how to succeed with organic LinkedIn strategies and find out exactly what users are looking for. Use proven strategies to build authority and have LinkedIn users hit you up for projects rather than having to relentlessly pursue them. Learn actionable hacks from LinkedIn expert Natalie De Souza Ferreyra and leverage these tips to make a difference in building an engaged audience.

Audio Transcript

Welcome to growth hack by Papi Digital tips and tricks to master the algorithms from industry insiders. Now here's your host, Julian Espinosa. Welcome back to another episode of growth hack with me, your host Julian Espinosa on this podcast we break down marketing channels, such as Google, Facebook, Instagram, and show them how to make them work for you. In our previous episode, we answered the question who should advertise on LinkedIn. This has drummed up quite a few more questions about LinkedIn.

And one common one that we received was how do I generate leads on LinkedIn? In this episode, we answer this question and the answer is probably not what you're expecting. We also cover common misconceptions about lead generation and how to do it properly. To answer these questions. We asked Natalie to join us. She's a LinkedIn expert and a worldwide marketing speaker.

So I'm glad to have you today on the podcast. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. So before we crack open, like what LinkedIn geniuses you have in your head and what's going on, how did you get started in digital marketing? That is a good question. It's digital marketing has become my passion, my life. It's what I do at work. It's what I do outside of work, because it's my hobby. I love testing and creating, and it all started when I, you know what I'm going to stop right there because I guess my love for speaking and to a community started back in middle school. I ran the country. No, actually in LA and thousand Oaks and Kaleena middle school, I started the news network, CNN Kaleena news network. And I would, you know, create videos and interview teachers and interview 5k runners and, and stuff like that. And then share it with the home. Well, it's called homeroom, create the DVD on I movie. So I was a reporter and I did that as part of student body. So I really loved creating content and interviewing people and finding out what people wanted to hear about this was in middle school. So that was my passion. I wanted to grow up and kind of create a community, build a community, create Produce shows.

That's what I wanted to do. But then I got into business and I went to school for business and stuff like that. Right. And I started a blog in college, but it wasn't until I had my own beauty show on Facebook a few years back, I grew that. With the help of chat bots and other content to 2 million followers. And so I did and still active today. It's not active, it's not active. So it was a group. It was, it was two guys and myself. Great guys, geniuses. They were working on the channel prior to me coming into the team. And then I had daily beauty shows where I would apply my makeup and it exploded. So after that we decided, Hey, we're not just going to be the Natalie beauty channel.

We're going to be a network. So we hired her. Oh, we hired other influencers and it would be Monday Natalie Tuesday, Christina Wednesday. And so that way we could have different segments and different audiences and it was a hit. And soon after that, I got hired by Infusionsoft. Now keep, they wanted me to run influencer campaigns.

They wanted me to have a show. They wanted me to make that same thing happen with chatbots and things like that. But for. B2B. So that is where my passion for B2B started. Really. It's been digital marketing and I've taken that and evolved and innovated and changed according to where company I'm currently helping out.

And, but you skip the step. Did I tell me which step you skipped high? I don't know. Oh Disney. Yes. So I joined Disney. I looked at your LinkedIn before this, I joined Disney right after college, actually to work on the press site that the PR press side of things. And because social media was always on my radar. I mean, I had. Beauty show I had a blog. I wanted to combine, you know, the PR side and the social side. So I started Disney, ABC TV press handles. So I got those verified on Twitter, Instagram. We did, I didn't do Facebook, but then I would post pictures with the cast of shows. I would tweet out to, you know, entertainment tonight and weekly and all those things.

And so that, and then I would report. At the Oscars at the Academy awards at American music awards at the SPS, I would post content right from the red carpet. So that was amazing to do and to work on, but that that's not what really launched the whole growth hacking side. The growth hacking side happened when I started the live beauty shows on Facebook.

Right. Right. And that was prior before you went to Disney. That was after that was after. Wow. Okay. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna pretend like I know your life story. Okay. You can, you can just like, you know, listen to this after we're done. And yeah. I hate listening to my own podcasts. So. You got into news reporting and then that developed your career through high school and into college where you started business. And then when did you start using LinkedIn? I believe you said keep was that I actually was a huge LinkedIn nerd when I was a sophomore in college. Everybody was into Instagram and they were into Facebook and I was like, I love LinkedIn. It was crazy because. All my friends, you know, I was in college. And if you were in college in back in 2014, I think, or 2013, LinkedIn was literally a place where you would go to find jobs and, and find recruiters to get jobs.

Right. And so you would publish publicize that you did an internship here and there, or that you were part of student body or whatever. Well, if you were in college at the time, and for me, it was, let me add people who were working at NBC universal, who were at Telemundo, who were at Disney, because I want to see what does the job description look like for somebody that works there.

And I wanted it. That was part of my reporting side. I just wanted to know. Right. And so I got really into LinkedIn so much so that I got a really, I got like over a hundred percent in my business communications class. Because we were taught LinkedIn, you know, one-on-one percent. And the teacher really wanted us to know LinkedIn and learn LinkedIn, and I would help other students with their LinkedIn profiles. And that was me six years ago. So it has evolved. And after that, I've, I've added all these people to learn from them too. Check out their content. They post really good news and their opinions. It's like the people that post an article from you know, the New York times, but with a twist with their actual caption and their opinion on the matter.

So LinkedIn became a place for me to consume content that was relevant to my field. Today. It is also a place where I find leads for my company and it's a place for it where I find leads for the companies that I'm working with. And nice. So that leads into the perfect question. It's like you knew what we were talking about.

Why LinkedIn for lead generation LinkedIn for lead generation is, is top because it, if you want quality individuals, if you want quality prospects, LinkedIn is a place where you find quality people and I'm talking about what you think that is. I mean it really, I mean, let's, let's go back a step. It really depends on what your business specializes in, right?

What your product is, what your service is. But if you have something like software or B2B, you're marketing to. CEOs or CMOs of huge companies or companies that will need your product. Well, where are they? They're on LinkedIn. If you spend money, I'm running Facebook ads to attract those people. They're just going to scroll right through.

But if you position your brand or yourself as a thought leader, an expert leader, and you add those people and they see what you're really about, then you don't really have to do much selling or put any ad spend behind what you're talking about, because then they'll recognize. That is someone they want to work with. So lead generation on LinkedIn has become for me very passive. It's not so much direct as in, I'm not running any ads on LinkedIn. It's all about who I connect with and is my product or service relevant to those people. Right. So what's really interesting for LinkedIn is as you pointed out the data source, it has, it's got great data because you've got.

Job title. You have location, you have industry, you have length at companies and you have all this data that doesn't exist really anywhere else. Right? So like on Facebook. Yeah. You may know that they work at a company, but you don't know what industry you don't necessarily. People don't keep it. Like people don't update their Facebook's with like their job title.

Right. So I think the data that LinkedIn has, it's so powerful because the data is like, Very accurate or at least very up to date in comparison to the other channels that it competes with. Why? Because people in LinkedIn do want to have a really great reputation, whether that is to network with other individuals that they think are quality people, or to get again, to go back to, to get that job, to get that promotion. Right. So you're going to be as accurate as possible and as truthful as possible on LinkedIn. So when you go back to. Being a marketer and having a business and our product or service to sell, you know, exactly like you say, you know, the data, you know, the people and it doesn't cost you anything to have that data because they put it out there for you to see.

So you're adding connections that are relevant to you. And I'm again, let's go back to that quality. Right? So. For those of you that are the naysayers and the non-believers, I'm going to actually probably use a clip of about what you're about to say, to get you to listen to this episode. So the question I have is what are the common misconceptions about LinkedIn lead generation that it's spammy?

The main misconception is okay. So this is a girl that just adds a bunch of people and sends them a generic. Message to get them to buy something right. Or subscribe or whatever. It, LinkedIn generate lead generation when done right. Has nothing to do with sending people messages before you get to that message.

I'm just going to tell you, I mean, if you're on the dating world, Do you go up to people and you go, Hey, I'm so great. You should totally like date me. No people don't do that. Okay. And if they do, you need to run the opposite way. So the way LinkedIn lead generation goes is you build a relationship and a connection. You heard her what she just said, building a relationship. Sorry. You have to, to build trust. Am I right? In all kinds of relationships and especially professionals and especially if you're going to pry into their wallets. So what you're going to do is you are going to attract people. You're going to be the honey to attract the bees.

How do you do that? You don't do that by saying how great you are. You do that by speaking like an expert, a subject matter expert on what you're selling on your industry. For example. Are you ready? Are you even ready for this children, Natalie? Okay. So me let's okay. I'm going to just use myself as an example. Sure. So I do digital marketing, specialized in social media and, and you know, the last couple of years on LinkedIn. So what do I do? I. Research, I run tests. I run campaigns. I have data I AB test and then I share that data. So I'm not going to sit back and say, I'm so smart. Like you should hire me. And I know what I'm talking about. I'm going to share numbers with you. So I'll do a case study and I'll share it on LinkedIn. I'll do a quick video and give a tip. And I'm my tip. Isn't just because I thought about it. It's been. Backed by data and things that worked for me actually. Right. And backed by numbers. So then people have started to notice, okay, Natalie, somebody that wants other people to learn, she's sharing knowledge, she's sharing things that are valuable and accurate to me and my field. I'm going to follow her. I'm going to share her content. I'm going to comment and ask questions. And that's how we got a lot of questions today.

We'll talk about later. Right. So then I have become a, I hate to say this, but an expert on, on what I talk about, because I give people. Knowledge. So, so then if somebody has a project that's is how I get leads. I'm just giving out all the honey, you know, putting it out on the table. There's nothing to hide here. She gives away honey. And yeah. People will message me. And they'll comment, they'll say, they'll say Natalie, I really you know, have this project. I want to get X amount of leads or I have this campaign to run for the holidays. What do you recommend? Let's hop on a call and what's your consulting like, you know, and so then I'll send them my Calendly link and when we will link up.

So that's how I've built. Reputation and what I do by actually putting out content and, and putting out knowledge. So the misconception is that generating LinkedIn link. Wow. Generating leads on LinkedIn is not necessarily putting out messages to hundreds of people. It's creating demand, content, creating. Interest creating a community and a relationship as you pointed out, I have no idea how many messages I get a day about somebody telling me how amazing their product is and that I should totally try it. And they have a special link just for me. Or in the request, are you saying this isn't how we should do it? Absolutely not how you should do it, because what I do is I block those people, shout out to the blocked ones. Right. I really do, because I know this person, they could have a kick-ass product, a kick-ass product. They could have an amazing company, but like, all they're going to do is spammy. And they have no idea how to interact with me and I don't want to deal with that.

So that's not a good way to get customers is by, you know, messaging people is you have to actually attract them. You know, what's interesting. So, I mean, at this particular second, what we're really talking about, isn't even it's it's platform agnostic, right? Because if you're doing this, the same thing on like Instagram is doing the same thing on Facebook doing the same thing on all these other channels, it would be the same thing.

Right? It's like people instead of creating value. They're spamming you, right? So it's not just LinkedIn, this, this is agnostic to any platform, right? Like the logic. So I have a question, like just, I always, I always think about these things is why do people get so caught up with this spamming? Like, why does spamming happen regardless of the platform?

Like, I don't know. W what's your opinion on that? You're talking a consumer end or like the actual spammers, like, why do they actually do this? Why, why? I think it's going to work. They think, you know, I'm going to send a hundred emails. The open rate might be 20%. If I'm lucky and three of those will buy my product and that's just, you know, numbers.

But at the end of the day, is it going to build quality people? You know, are you, would you rather out of a hundred, wouldn't you rather actually close 10? Or more than 10. So you are talking about overarching, you know, all social media, you should be posting quality content, but on LinkedIn, If you w w since we're talking specifically LinkedIn people and have money, they have jobs.

They, they want to learn. They want to see what else is innovative out there. What, what they're missing, what the, you know, who they can learn from. That's why people grow their network. So if they're growing, if they're there to grow their network and your providing that value, they're going to recommend you. And they're probably going to do business with you. So the next question I have is let's take, let's take our average person. Let's just take a person they've been on LinkedIn for four or five years. They've updated their, where they've worked. They've joined a new company and they need to generate leads now for their company.

They're in some business development role. Okay. Where do you even begin? Where do you begin? Put out projects that you're proud of, that you have legal, legal rights to talk about and give out tips and tricks. So I'm somebody that does this very well is I'm blanking on the name right now. I'm. Thinking Mark from drift drift the conversational marketing tool they're our chat tool.

And so he just goes and creates quick videos from the office and he'll share tips and tricks. Like you guys, we have data that if you share gifts or if you do this in a chat room, Then people are more likely to reply to you. So then I didn't know that, right. So I don't know I'm learning from him. So I do want to see his content.

So what you do is you think of a cool project that, you know, created the ROI in UNO and insane ROI or that you're really proud of and give out to. Tips. And if you don't want to be in front of the camera, that's totally fine. Because text posts perform really well at copy. Just plain copy perform really well. So you could say, Hey, we just ran a project. We just did this campaign. And here's two tips that, you know, things that worked and how you can apply them. And so that's just a quick and easy way to get. So let's, let's say. They buy into that, let's say, okay, they start doing this. Is there any logic in adding people to the network?

Because let's say they swapped industry. They don't no one in this particular industry, would it make sense to start looking for people and adding them? Yes, it would make sense. I would say at the beginning of you're building a network, build your network, don't be shy. Do not. If you're going to add a comment, a note to the request, to the.

No relationship request or connection request. Do not say anything about I'm switching industries. I want more people in my network, you know, either don't add a comment if they don't add a note, if you're going to say that or say, Hey, I really like your expertise in X, Y, Z. And I love to learn from you. Period start building that network. Cause it's, that's how you start. But once you start posting and you see people are commenting and you see their connections are adding use at the end, it just becomes kind of like a domino effect. Right. Right. So I think we're, we've touched on it a little bit and, and I think, I know, I think the answer's pretty evident, but the next question we got a lot was like, how do you organically grow your audience?

That is a great question. So the question was, how do you organize organically? How do you organically grow your audience? And again, I'm going to sound repetitive, but I'm going to say it. You grow your audience by giving. The right audience, the right content. So create demand, position yourself as an expert in your field. Let's see, you are a realtor and I, and I use this example a lot because you know, entrepreneurship, you're basically an entrepreneur at that point. You're a realtor. And you're like, but what kind of content do I share for people to follow me for my, you know, content to get lots of likes, because if you're just posting listings, guess what, if I'm not interested?

If people, yeah. It's like, okay, like that's cool photos of your listing, but since I'm not going to purchase, I'm not going to recommend or share like, you know, so how do you get that organic engagement is you start sharing pictures of ideas on how to decorate a room in the house. You know, Inc position yourself as a thought leader in the core in architecture.

So sharing news, like here's what this architect did in this you know, contemporary, you know what I mean? So, so you start giving people content that they like, and then they go, Oh, here's a cool realtor that actually also knows about architecture and actually also knows about design and can, you know, and so you become more valuable and that's how you organically grow.

There you go. So the next question leaps into the algorithm. So we've learned that how to start your network. You start adding people, you start creating content, creating value, building trust, building a community, building these relationships. Correct. How do you start hacking the algorithm? I'll tell you what it's all about creating a value proposition that is not directly related to you making money and I'll tell you directly related.

Right? I'll tell you what in order for people and for the algorithm to like you. You have to be talking about things pertaining to your industry, right. But you can't just be talking about yourself. You have to be talking about things around your, your product or your service and things that would be.

Pertinent to your audience. So what do you do is again, you start sharing those little expert tidbits, tips and tricks the, your opinion on articles in your field and things like that. And then people start to comment and like, and stuff like that. But if you really want algorithm hacking tips, I'll give you them.

So here's a couple, yeah. Here's a couple LinkedIn really likes when people engage within the first 60 minutes, this, this works with all, any, and all social media platforms. So the first 60 minutes are going to be your go-to. This is where you want to tell your network. Hey I've posted something. If, for example, if I post something that I think you would like Julian, I would probably message you and tell you, Hey, go read what I just posted on LinkedIn, by the way.

I do do that. Yeah. Because I think you might like it, but also it's an algorithm hack. I'm going to admin it. Sure. And so then. If you get the most engagement, if you get the most comments or likes or shares within that first 60 minutes, LinkedIn automatically thinks, okay, this post is trending. This post is opposed.

Other people in this industry are going to want to see. So they're going to show it to more people in your second connections, third connections, right? That's number one 60 minutes. And you have to comment. So if you comment on my posts, okay. If it's within that 60 minute window, I'm going to comment right back.

If it's after the 60 minute window, I might just wait a couple hours just to like kick it back up after. So it'll say, you know, on your feed, you go on your LinkedIn timeline and then it'll say somebody commented on something else on this post. Okay. So I'll might wait a couple of hours if it's after a 60 minute window, just so it kicks us, it kicks it back up to the timeline, but another hack is Tag relevant people.

So at the end of your post, you have, you have a picture or a video or an article. You have your text copy that goes along with it at the bottom of it tag. Relevant people that might want to see it because then LinkedIn things, okay. If she's tagging these people or if he's tagging these people, that means that people in their industries are going to want to see a post like this.

Another thing is make sure that you add relevant hashtags because hashtags trend. So if you haven't seen it a notification, so it'll say. Natalie. This is a post is trending in hashtag social media or hashtag inspiration. So utilize hashtags that are super relevant, I would say about five to seven tops.

Cause you don't want to spam and you don't want people to think you're just hashtagging to hashtag I can go on for hours about these LinkedIn hikes, by the way. That's that's okay. I'm just going to give one more, because again, I don't want to spell all my secrets and if you want more secrets, you can just follow me. Right. Another thing is I would immediately after this is this is a good one immediately after you create a post you comment and you tag people that are relevant. And that way, not only did you just create a comment on your post? People think, Oh gosh, like she's tagging me. That means she's thinking about me.

And I am going to take some seconds out of my time to look at this post because she's giving me time you know, kind of out of her day to tag me. So, so it's actually kind of funny because We texted a little bit about this and you didn't know this, but I've learned a lot about you and I've learned a lot of secrets at you'd use from your, from following you on LinkedIn.

And I've learned a lot because I watch what you do. And I pay attention and I'm like, okay, she's doing like lower thirds. Copy. She's doing captions. She's doing emojis here. She's tagging people. She's tagging people in the car. Those are things I haven't even mentioned that you're mentioning. Right. So, you know, it's, it's the point is, is.

Whoever's being successful on the platform, watch them right. And watch what they're doing, because it's easy to deconstruct what they're doing, just reverse engineer it. Right. So, and, and not only that, you all obviously publicize and you share what you're doing, which is great. But there's a lot of things that, I mean, I've caught on I, I you'll learn more about this later on, but my journey started with LinkedIn about little bit over two years ago.

I mean, I've been on LinkedIn for years, but like really, really using it, but a little bit over two years ago. And my first like four or five posts, zero likes, zero comments. One, two likes one comment, no likes. It was really, really like, I was really like down on myself because at the time I was 10 years into digital marketing and I was not effective on LinkedIn.

And I'm like, how can I be, how can I call myself a digital marketer without being good? Right. At marketing myself. So I w I kind of got down on myself for a little bit. And to be honest with you, I don't know when I started, like, when I connected with you on LinkedIn, I would, I'd have to go back and look and see, but I know I've been following you for awhile and.

You're welcome. And just, I'm sorry to cut you off, but you hit on something super important. And dear to me is that you cannot call yourself a blank if you're not exercising. So that is something that I teach in. All of my workshops is you are a digital marketer. Yeah. You think you're a social media marketing manager. So why are you not utilizing it for your advantage? Right. So you just, what you said, I'm a digital marketer. How is this not working for my own personal, you know, company or for my own personal gain? If you have all the knowledge up here, you should be able to test on your own profile and practice it. And so that's what I do is before I push it on a campaign and a marketing campaign, anything I test on my own profile a hundred percent.

And I mean, it really, really bothers me. How many people are running campaigns who can't do it for themselves. I mean, part of the reason I started my own company was. All a lot of my previous companies would not market in themselves digitally. Sure. They would do a little bit here and there, but they really wouldn't. And so for myself, it's like, I wanted to know, Hey, if I'm consulting and if I'm doing this and I'm getting paid real dollars, I needed to be able to do it for myself. So I went on this journey and again, I don't remember when I started following you, but I definitely did not. I was not effective when I first started. And, you know, I didn't start straight off like posting self-promotion. I wasn't, I already knew better than that. I knew better than to say, Hey, I do SEO. Hey, I'm a social media guy. Come and talk to me. I knew not to post that, but the type of content I was posting, I'm not going to go into the details, but it just wasn't working for me.

And the first time. It actually worked. It was, and I know I wasn't following you at the time. It was when I shared. A story of what I, what a really busy day was like in my day on something I had never done before, and I tagged the people that were involved. And I thank the bunch of people that helped get this data happen. I was, it was actually, to be honest with you, Natalie was like, I put it out there because I wanted to thank everyone who helped me with this day. We had this client who a campaign turned out really bad. And we needed to reshoot all the content and we had no money to do it. So like we basically asked Goodwill of a bunch of people involved and a bunch of people basically didn't charge me and, or they charged me really, really little.

And a lot of my friends helped to, to make this. Day two, right. To get this content. And I shared this and that was my most successful post. And so one thing about a marketer that's important to pay attention to is when you find something that works. Stick to it. Right. Because a lot of marketers are like, okay, let's try the next thing.

No. Now that, that works dive deeper. Right. And so once I saw that to work, it was like, okay, people want to see my struggles. People want to see what I'm going through. People want to see the, like me struggling. And then my, my success at the same time. Right. And so, and then obviously I tagged people and that got people involved, they commented and this whole thing and this, and I kind of started seeing this magic happen. And so that's kinda my story with LinkedIn and you know, that post itself, like. Didn't, it wasn't even that much. It was like, I think four or 500 views with like 11 comments and like five likes. It wasn't very much. And now like my most successful posts, which is nowhere near yours, but regardless, it's like, I think I'm at like a hundred likes and like 50 comments and like, you know, four or 5,000 views.

Right. But like, it's, it's been a journey to get that. And that's what I think a lot of people don't realize is it's a journey. Right. You have to figure out what works for you and your audience. It's not like day one at work. I'll tell you why. I went to Austria a couple months ago. I was invited to speak about social video lead generation.

Yes. Gerhard for, well, he didn't. Yeah. Yes. So I went to Austria and. I am having dinner with some people at the conference, getting to know them. And they asked me where I'm from. And I say, LA, particularly I live 20 minutes from Malibu. Oh my goodness. Do you know David Hasselhoff? Have you ever seen him? And I was like, no, I've, you know, Baywatch like years and years ago. And he goes, well, did you know that he's super famous here? He is super famous in Austria and he's super famous in Germany. And I had no clue and I was like, I thought they were pulling my leg. Honestly. I thought they were just joking. And the thing is he, David Hasselhoff didn't even know himself how popular he was because of a movie he did and a picture of him in a leather jacket.

And he didn't know. And when he found out he went to Germany, he went to Austria, he started making moves there. And the thing is, it goes back to, you might not know what your audience wants from you, but once they tell you. Capitalize on that right. Act on it quick, because you could think you're an expert on this and that people are just going to follow you because you're so great.

But the reality is it's all about the people. It goes back to, what do they want to hear from you and what do they perceive you as? And if you can master speak you and what you love, and also getting the intention, attention of others and others following you and believing you. Boom, you know, that is, that is magic. So, so it goes back to David Hasselhoff. He was not as successful in the United States as he is today in Austria, still making by the way, still making productions and film and TV V over there, but he knew where his audience was and he catered to his audience. That's awesome. So I'm going to ask one final question. I've heard really good things and I've heard really bad things about engagement pods. So for our audience, can you explain what is an engagement pod? And engagement pod is a message group or text thread or, or whatever you want to call it with people. Just, I'm just going to say people for, for them to like, and comment and share your posts as soon as you post him.

So a lot of people have them for Instagram, for, for Facebook, for LinkedIn, they'll post something on those platforms and then they'll go to their engagement pods, and they'll ask these people to like, and comment. Right. Just for algorithm purposes. It was in the first 60 minutes. And, and my thoughts on my thoughts on them, or are we getting ahead?

You are it's my next question. No, so, okay. So the value, before we get into the question, do you recommend them the value is that in the first 60 minutes, that that post starts to have vulnerability, it starts to trend, right? Or at least LinkedIn believes it does because people are commenting. So that's the value. That is a value. As the algorithm push now go, do you recommend it? I recommend pods. Yes. Only if the people that are in your pod have the similar, have the same or similar industry as you. Why? Because it doesn't matter if these people comment because LinkedIn, the algorithm will pick up that it's the same people commenting.

What matters is that if you have people in your pod that have the same industry, those people will know people. You want to know. By association. Hello, just like a network. Right? So if you, for example, Julian, Travis chambers AJ Wilcox, these are all people that are in the realm of marketing, digital marketing, social media.

If they are commenting, if they are sharing. You know, Richie Norton TFN, then their network will see that these people have influenced commented on my posts and they want to see my posts. So it's not about engagement pods. Your pots could be three people or four people, but if these people are relevant and also have poll in your industry, That's when I highly recommend having pots.

Right. Because basically what you're talking about, it's a false positive. And what I mean by a false positive, right? Is that, yes, this is, there's a lot of people engaging with this post, but their network has nothing to do with the type of people you're trying to reach. So it's like this false positive

Yeah. Your post has a lot of viral ability and it's trending, but. No one, no, one's going to take action cause no one cares about going to generate a lead a quality for you. No, it's not. It's like, okay. You know, I post something about digital marketing. I ran an AB test on a tag lines and headlines for a Facebook ad. Okay. And I knew my engagement pod. I have people that are pharmacists and doctors, and that's great for, you know, people to interact with people in other industries, but. Who am I targeting? Am I targeting doctors and pharmacists? No, I'm targeting digital marketers and business owners and entrepreneurs. So in my engagement pods, or you know, who I tag in those posts.

Relevant. It's all about the relevancy. Awesome. Well, Natalie, and say your last name. Thank you so much for joining us today. Coming out to Santa Monica on a Thursday, basically it's nighttime already, and we really appreciate it. We hope to have you back. Thank you so much, Julian. Thanks for having me.